What element in American society is responsible for VT and Columbine?

If we look at the US and Canada together they are both quite similar in their culture - heritage(mainly European), language, sports etc. But yet the rate of gun related murders in the US is more than 50 times that of Canada.


http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mu...


I appreciate there are probably more guns per capita in the US, and I understand that Canada has stricter gun laws.........but the people are essentially the same.


It would be interesting to hear from Canadians as well as Americans.

What element in American society is responsible for VT and Columbine?
First off, Canada has had some pretty horrific mass murder type situations too. Comparing Columbine and VT with a general murder rate is not a proper comparison in any event.


You also overlook trememdous differences in population, have you controlled for the fact that the US population is 10 times that of Canada?





Next, you assume also that things like Columbine and VT result from gun ownership exclusively. Not so....in most cases these mass murders are caused by people who have social and other problems, they merely resort to guns as a means to their ends. If there were no guns, would they stop? I posit not likely, they would merely find other ways to strike out.





I'm not even going any further to answer your question because I believe it contains too many faulty antecedants and premises.
Reply:It is due to GREED...
Reply:US's six times larger population than Canada. Cooler weather in Canada. Socio-democratic system. Affordable Health Care System. Accessibility to weaponry easier in the US. Accessibility to drugs. Consumption of drugs way larger in the USA.Socio-Economic pressures.


Danworth, I think that you are paraphrasing but, aren't all those thoughts that you expressed very similar to those of one very popular guy named HITLER!?
Reply:Parents are responsible for their children. Teachers and mental health professionals next.
Reply:What causes Muslims to strap bombs on themselves and blow up innocent men, women and children ?
Reply:No family structure,
Reply:who knows if that's were we should look?
Reply:Racial, cultural, and sexual alienation caused by the inherent deteriorating nature of society's contemporary fixation on multiculturalism in the institutional and academic realms, combined with the exploitative effects of popular meda and its pseudo-cultural dictates.





Give Canada time and increased diversity, and they will catch up.





(cabron o, Marxist much?)
Reply:The major difference between Canadians and Americans when it comes to gun laws, is that owning a gun is NOT enshrined anywhere in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms as it is in the American constitution.





Ontario put a limit on guns in 77 after the first school shooting here in Ontario in73 in Brampton Ontario.





I think most Canadians up until the last 7 years or so weren't inclined to have a gun in their homes,unles they were with law enforcement or were a hunter or a gun enthusiast. With the advent of gangsters bringing illegal guns into the cities and now the rural areas, some people are thinking that they may need guns to protect themselves, but I don't think the majority of Canadians do.





My father had hunting rifles and amunition, I never knew where he kept them until I had to break up my parents home after they both passed away. Canadians have a respect for guns that Americans, imho don't. We're not as gun culture crazy as Americans. We don't view owning a gun as our God given right. I think if the forefathers were still alive , they wouldn't interpret the second ammendment that way either. It was mainly for the militia and farmers, not the regular citizen.
Reply:guns are so easy to purchase now, and everyone needs protection from the 96 year old lady down the street. people need to start taking karate lessons or somethin
Reply:Indifference and hopelessness.
Reply:I believe the word is "personal" responsibility. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.





Politicians call for gun control, commentators decry the decadent popular culture, scientists even suggest genetic disorders; but the real answer goes much deeper.





Today's kids desperately need moral guidance. They need to know right from wrong. And sadly, too many adults have abdicated their responsibility to teach kids values that respect life. In public schools, students are taught to "construct" their own truths. And teachers are trained not to offer direction, lest they hamper a child's autonomy. The results of such thinking have been explosive.
Reply:Nothing in "society." There are a lot of problems that could be allieviated by social change. This is not one of them. The sad truth is that we occasionally have deranged individuals who cause tragedies like VT or Columbine.





Maybe one day we will know enough about how the human mind works to reliably spot and treat such sick individuals--but not today, and maybe not in our lifetimes. But don't confuse a psychological problem with a social one.
Reply:Probably the fact that parents are too busy working to devote energy and time to raising kids. That is the job of the TV.
Reply:Although there are many similarities, we cannot put one element in place and point to it. We also have to allow for the human variable. In Columbine the two shooters, seemed to be focused on being loners in a group of loners, and were apparently outcasts as a group. Because of this, they acted and dressed differently then the rest of their peer group. Neither the parents nor the teachers picked up on this, or they thought it was a phase that the kids were going through. The VTech shooter, was over the last two or three years a loner, but one doesn't know if his cultural background influenced him as a variable. Apparently there were several indicators, but they weren't followed up on. This might be due to political correctness, or people not wanting to get involved.
Reply:The Cho element is responsible.
Reply:We sensationalize the perpetrators. We make them stars, and that's what they want. School shootings happen every day, but we don't hear about them because they aren't from middle class and up environments.
Reply:The lack of attention to serious mental health issues seems to be a theme in both situations you mentioned. I am not a pro-gun or really and anti-gun person, but why is it so easy for folks with histories of serious mental illness to get guns. Harris, Klibolt and Chu all had histories that their families knew about yet they got them little to no help and actually in some cases made it easier for them to be societies problem and not their problem.





It isn't fair to compare gun violence in US vs. Canada, there are so many cultural and population differences that it just doesn't scientifically hold a lot of weight. Doing things in a big way to be noticed is more a US phenomena than Canada or most other countries, but Canada has its fair share of serial killers and slower methodical types of sickos, ie Hamolka situation. It isn't correct to say the people are the same in the US as in Canada, there are so many political and cultural difference I wouldn't know where to start, but for starters I would like to point out the effects of population density, poverty, racism and a failed health care system which the US has to contend with and Canada for the most part doesn't.





Good question, no easy answers.
Reply:I'd like an unbiased investigation into these events. Honestly, I don't think that our own government agencies are credible at this point in history (Check out the errors and omissions in the Warren Commission Report and the 9/11 Commission Report.) Our media is also not credible given the conformist and parrot-like reporting service that they perform.





If we could get impartial investigators from Canada, France, and perhaps some credible specialists to investigate the root causes of these event. We can only fix the problem when we understand what the problem is.





Until then, you can bet that someone somewhere will blame CIA Black Ops for these events.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_H...





"The reality of social cliques in high schools was a frequent topic of discussion. Many argued that the pair's isolation from the rest of their classmates prompted feelings of helplessness, insecurity and depression, as well as a strong desire for attention. Some schools also began programs to expose and stop school bullying, which many charged had fueled anger and resentment within Harris and Klebold." (Students tell of bullying at Columbine High . (October 3, 2000) rockymountainnews.com)